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Thank you.

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Welcome to another episode, the place where we talk about kids' ministry and take a peek behind the scenes. We try to share a little bit of what we've learned that works for us and some of our failures so you can avoid them. We release a new episode every Friday, and this is your Backstage Pass to see the magic or disaster that happens behind the scenes of our kids' ministry. I'm your host, Gabe Baker, and today I'm joined by Brother Brent. How's it going? It's going good. Joined. Joined.

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Joined.

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All right, well, what are we talking about today?

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Okay, today's topic is going to be the tipping point.

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The tipping point. And we're not talking about cow tipping.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

No, never done that. The tipping point. So have you ever been asked to lead something you don't feel qualified or you don't even know if you're capable? Maybe someone calls you out as an, quote, expert at something and you're like, hey, wait a minute. Or on the flip side, have you ever felt like you kind of had something figured out and maybe you were a, quote, expert, you know, and then you get around different people and you feel like you don't have a clue, you know, like you Right. And I think of like my

SPEAKER_00 1:35

job is always, there's always learning involved and, you know, people come in and think, oh, you're the expert at this. And it's like, well, yeah, to a point, I suppose. Yeah. But then, like you said, you get around someone who's been in it a lot longer and it's like, well, Wow. Got a long way to go. Or, you know, wow, they know so much, so much easier, so much more able to grasp what they're, you know, they're, they just, it's like just flows out of them. Yeah. Something

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that you normally like maybe do as a procedure

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and they just

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know it.

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And it's like, well, that generally takes me, you know, a while to figure out or something. Yeah. It's, that's true. So.

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Yeah. And I think the thing with this phenomenon and we're not going to solve this today. No. And it's a big subject and we'll probably talk about it again. I think it's really interesting. I was actually talking to my daughter about it a little bit, but I think that you don't, you know, the best professionals never stop learning. Right. Right. I mean, they're always learning. But there's just some point where you go from being kind of like where you're looking for resources to where you are the resource kind of, you know. Right. So that's kind of what I mean by that tipping point. So I have a note, due diligence, becoming a leader or the quote, you know, expert, I take Yes. And it takes experience.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Yes. It's taken me 11 years to get where I'm at on my job and still lots of room to go. Is that

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how long you've been there

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and where you're at right now? It'll be 11 years here in August.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Wow. Which is. So I remember when you were getting that job. It's just. That's crazy.

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2013. Man, that seems. It seems like it was just yesterday. Yeah, it just seemed like a couple years ago. Wow. 11 years. Like, wow. Before kids. Wow, man. Well,

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especially in this day and age, it's more common. And as young as you are, that's a long time to already

SPEAKER_00 3:56

be a job. It's not to go off topic, but it is kind of a weird how just everything fell into place. And that's not, again, not me, but it's always just been the Lord's will, how everything has just kind of worked out. Just blessing. I found out like a day that I hadn't paid my tuition for somehow. And it was like that day and it was like, or I missed it. And so I didn't get into that. Like I was in the class, enrolled everything. Great. Here's when it's going to start. Didn't get tuition paid. And that was a blessing because in that short period of time, the guy quit. So then I got kind of moved up and took over a bigger portion. Years later, same sort of scenario happened again. Boom, put me up. And then next thing you know, a year later doing management stuff. Well, now

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you're over there kind of running

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at East Park. Got a few departments that I run. Yep. So it's, it's, it's neat in a way. That's so cool. You don't, you don't think about it or you don't look back and go, oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's just neat how things

SPEAKER_02 4:56

have. Well, and it took time. Right. You know, and that's the thing is it does, it takes time and, and you learn stuff along the way and experience. And, you know, I, I, I technically still work in construction, but I, you know, I work out of my living room. I dress, you know, in a suit.

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A little bit different degree of construction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

But I started, um, very young. I started actually working when I was 14. My dad had a construction company, but I've done a lot of, I've done all kinds of construction, but I've done a lot of concrete. And I still sometimes once in a great while, somebody twists my arm and I pour some flat work, you know, but that's an example of some of the things like that I learned. And I remember talking to my friend, we were pouring concrete here at the church. This has been years and years ago. And I was talking to a friend of mine that was in the apprenticeship for pipe fitting and And he was like, like complimenting me, you know, and I wasn't taking it very well as a kid, but he was complimenting me on my concrete skills or whatever. And I was like, oh man, this is nothing you, you're learning an actual trade, you know, how to do. And he's like, no, he's like the way that you move that trowel. Like, I don't know how to do that. Like, you know, I try, I try to do the same thing. It looks the same, but when the concrete doesn't look the same, it looks like I'm doing it the same, but yeah. And so there are things. And so I've been doing that for years. I mean, since I was 14, so that's a long time. And he picks stuff up really good, but it's like I have to reach back and try to articulate things that I just do naturally. It's like driving a car now, right? After you drive a car for a long time, it's just you do so many things where it's second nature.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Which is scary because I'll catch myself sometimes. It's like you're in the moment and it's like, wow, I just passed two accidents. I

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don't remember driving.

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And it's like, ooh, that's kind of scary. But it's like, how did I get here and not cause an accident or something? Because it's like I just zoned out completely. And next thing you know, it's like, oh. Oh, that was like a couple of minutes ago. What happened there? Yeah. So far, haven't heard or no one's came knocking on the door.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Yeah. So, going back to the whole expert idea or whatever. And Brother Booker, Philip Booker, he says about Sunday school, he says, it's kind of like his mantra is, oh boy, if I can get it right here. It's something like, we're not experts, but we love what we do. And so, I love that attitude. And that's the attitude I want to have is, But I will say he is an expert. where they want to be the quote expert before they put in the time. Right. And it's all facade. It's all show, you know, and then what happens is they usually embarrass themselves. It might take a little while. It'll happen. It'll happen. But it eventually happens. It'll rear its

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head.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Yeah. Yeah. I remember reading, I was, I think it was in Seven Habits of Highly Effective Teens by Sean Covey. And he was talking about, he went on a golf trip with his like boss or something and he didn't know how to golf but he was really athletic but he didn't he wasn't a very good golfer or didn't had never golfed maybe I

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can't remember that hard

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yeah and so he and he was too embarrassed to say that he didn't know how so he got up there and the first so this is gonna show that I don't know how to golf I've been like a couple times but the first drive whatever

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you call it

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first hit he did really well it sailed and went great and so he was just like thank you folks and All the bravado. Yep. And he said by the time like they just it was that was the only good hit he had. And he said it was so humbling because he was they were teaching him how to hold the club and which club to use and all this throughout the trip. So he totally just fell flat on his face. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

That's good. It happens.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Yeah. And so that's where and we're going to get into some more of this, but that's where I don't want to ever be that guy that is like, you know, yeah, I'm I'm pretty much an expert. Right. And. And just be

SPEAKER_00 9:51

like, no, you're not.

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And I work with men, you know, more than twice my age, three times my age. And so I had to learn, not that I didn't make mistakes and be arrogant sometimes, but I had to try to learn, you know, to be a humble leader at a young age when I'm telling these people what to

SPEAKER_00 10:32

do, you know. Yes, I agree. Because up until recently, all three of my employees were older than me. And most of them were 10 plus years older than me, which is, it is, it's just, it's a weird, like, I'm having to tell you what to do or explain to you or whatever. And it's like, again, you're always dealing with different personalities and stuff. So that's a huge thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough. It's a weird.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Yeah. I

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can't say I enjoy it. What

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I'll do sometimes, even working here at the church is I'll ask like, hey, can I show you something? You know, because I just see them struggling. I'm like, oh, man, this is just so wrong. They're just they're doing it wrong. And so. Right. You know, and I'll try to be as polite as I can. Like, hey, can I show you something? You know, teach a little bit or. You

SPEAKER_00 11:18

got to. You

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got to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Oh, yeah. It's like, I mean, just I guess I'll try and make this a quick example. But, you know, on the average Sunday morning, I feel like I do OK in Sunday school on, you know, the different bits and parts that you do. Say, OK, you're going to teach the lesson and you go out there, you have this idea what you're going to do. And then say you see a brother Booker and how he can just and not just him, but I'll use him as an example. But sure. Like the times he's been here for our August services. Right. He can tie that lesson in and just it's just like, well, it's the power of God. Yeah. But also it's the experience. It's the experience. That he has. And the practice. And the practice and everything all the time that he's put into it. And you can see that and it's like, okay, yeah, got a little bit to go still. Yeah. Figure stuff out. Exactly. That's what you need. Yeah. You need those experiences. You need to see that, be humble to that, knowing, hey, man, how's he do it? Watch him. Yeah. And he's taught a little bit, some classes here. Oh, yeah. We usually do a staff session. But that's receiving that, accepting that. Yeah. And being able to use that. Yeah. Oh, I've done this before.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Yeah. Be willing to accept that. I mean, the thing is, I remember my dad, who is a craftsman of craftsmen, I mean, in construction. And he's got so much experience. He's done all facets of construction, you know, like every division. Yep. But I remember him saying, this is years ago when he had a construction company, he had like 10 guys or something. And I remember him, he wasn't even talking to me. He was talking to another guy. And I remember him talking about somebody on the team. And he was like, well, don't tell him this, but I've learned stuff from him. And it was like a low man on the totem pole. And it's because he was willing to listen and willing, you know, and I remember I was a kid, I was like 15, but I remember over here and that, and, you know, I was like, man, I mean, here's my dad who knows like everything in my mind, you know, it was like, he knows everything about construction and yeah, he was willing to listen and to learn.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Exactly. Yeah. It's not, not always the vet veterans that there's always yeah the young guys might have an idea you might do something exactly do something it's like oh different way and it's you know you hear those things in the workplace and through other facets of information oh right yeah you know it's different data sets there's more than one way to skin a cat you know just because you've done it this way for 40 years or whatever it doesn't mean the new kid doesn't know what he's talking about but right

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yeah and so like here's another example of big fish in a little pond is kind of an example anyways. I remember I was, I don't know, I was pretty young. I was in my 20s. I think my wife and I were dating or something back then. I can't remember. But I had I had I think like 12 or 15 suits. So I had quite a few suits, you know, and dressed nice or whatever. And I remember I was in L.A. Garment District and I was talking to the guy and he was trying to, you know, a lot of times they treat you like you've never worn a suit before, you know. So he was talking to me and like you know try on this jacket well this shirt's gonna be different whatever and so I thought I would like let him know right that I had worn a suit and so I was like I said yeah well I have I have a lot of suits and he's and he was like a lot of suits huh he's like what's what's a lot of suits and I you know I was like well I have about 15 this guy had 300 suits that's good yeah he wore a thing in the microphone around here he wore a different suit every day for work plus you know a different suit every day for work plus and so that was I don't know if it's the best example but it was it was like okay I felt like okay I'm accomplished at this you know fashion or whatever or I have suits but yet he was like he blew me out of the water you know so I was this I was a big fish in my own little pond but

SPEAKER_00 15:39

my question would be where do you keep that many suits

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yeah

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well yeah warehouse full of them.

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But I think that we can get, you know, if our view is too narrow, so bringing it back to Sunday school, I think, you know, so, okay, I think our Sunday school is pretty awesome. I think we have good Sunday school and it's not, I don't feel like we're just, you know, big fish in a little pond, you know, I feel like we got a good Sunday school going. We're not a huge church, but decent size and so we have all these things happening. We get feedback from Right. And so it has opened up my pond, so to speak. And so not that I feel like it wasn't totally like it wasn't like the suit example. It wasn't like, oh, were lacking, but it did open up my perspective and realize there's so many different ways of doing Sunday school for one, but then also just like, okay, yeah, we got good Sunday school, but there's areas, like I don't want to change really how we do it. I mean, we might someday, but as of right now, I don't see the necessity necessarily to change our format or anything, but there's some things that we could do better. Agreed, yes. One of the things that I see with some of these guys you know brother Booker we've mentioned brother Tyler Hodge and then I just got to meet in person I've been we've been texting for a long time but brother Chris Bradshaw he was at the children's ministry seminar and he's in I think he's in Tennessee I think but man that guy is incredible at praying kids through and just watching him in action getting to work you know with kids in the altar with him yeah so that like has opened up my horizon Or broaden my horizons, you know, so that, and so I would like to encourage people, you know, under your pastor's blessing, of course, but we've taken a group down there, you know, to the children's ministry seminar and just being around other leaders like the kingdom kids we're going to go to in September, being around these children's ministry giants, you know, and I mean, it's just like, wow, okay, we can do so much and it's inspiring.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Yes, that's true. That's a, That's a good way of putting it. The inspiring factor. It's yeah. I dare say that our Sunday school doesn't really lack much in terms of, you know,

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we got cool sets.

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Kids don't not want to come. Like they're not like, Oh, I don't want to go to Sunday school. No, they, they want to go. That's, you know, they come up to you. They talk to you about it. Are you going to be in Sunday school today? You know? Yeah. So I don't think that that's lacking, but again, there's, yeah, there's always room for improvement. There's room for improvement. Yeah. Being around and associated with that, that kind of atmosphere, those kinds of people that you see it and go, okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Yeah. Well, you know, here's something that's funny is because of the exposure to some of these others and, and, and then I guess even this podcast maybe, but we do, we do pretty cool sets. I mean, I will, they're not, I'm not going to just say like, we're amazing because I want to be humble enough to be that way. But, but we do good, you know, good sets and we build custom playgrounds and no slides and all this stuff. So, so we have this reputation for that. So, So I was at the children's ministry seminar. I had gotten there a day early. So I asked for the book if I'd come over and help do setup. You know, I didn't have anything better to do. So

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we

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were over there and there were some ladies doing a backdrop for the stage and I was helping. And so she was like almost hesitant to direct me because she was like, oh, I feel, you know, weird telling you what to do on this or whatever. But the thing is, is it was really good. Like what she was doing it was taking like some basically tablecloths plastic tablecloth and making the skyscrapers out of it and it just it was a neat idea it was super cool I wouldn't have thought of it right and so there's an example like coming back like we were talking about you know you can learn something from like an apprentice you know or whatever and so and I kept on saying no no don't you don't have to be like that you know it's not you don't have to be like that around you know around me yeah okay so another another bullet point here we got a couple more to go and running out of time but the humility trap so I think it's easy it's easier especially in our in the church world to claim humility and take a step back right and so here's an example years ago I was at we had gone to a this is a long time ago this was back when like cell groups were a big thing okay so we were we never ended up really doing that we kind of do Bible studies and stuff but um Me and a friend of mine, pastor had sent us up to a cell group, like seminar or something like that, just to check it out. It was apostolic, but it was a church up north. And so we went up there and it was like during one of the breaks or something, they were going to, when they came back, I think it was after the lunch, when they were going to come back and they were going to do like a little song just to kind of open it back up. Right. Well, they were trying to find a drummer. And so at the time I played drums quite regular at church. And so the guy came over and he was like, didn't you guys play drums? And my friend was like, pointed at me. He's like, oh, he does. And he's like, okay, are you good? Well, I thought I was being humble. And now being in leadership positions, I understand the predicament he was in. But I thought I was being humble, but he was asking an honest question. He didn't want to get a buffoon up there.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Right. Someone who just.

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Yeah. And so he was like, are you good? And I was like, oh, no, I'm not very good. And so he was like, okay. And he moved on, ended up coming back to me because there was nobody else. not even that. I could have just said, yeah, I can, I can play, you know, I can keep the time or whatever. And so I think that's an example of, and especially in the church world, because we're taught that humility is good and it is, it is good. But I think that we got to be careful. We don't take it too far where we're not useful. Right. That's good. You know, where we're, we're like just being, being humble and bow out of responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yeah. I can do it, but you know, I'm just okay. I don't, you know.

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Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Right. There's probably someone Yeah. And

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I have seen that. And I think what it also, if we're not careful, and I guess to qualify, I do prefer the humility over the arrogance for sure, for sure prefer that. But I do think that sometimes that humility trap, as I call it, can also lead to kind of a lack of confidence, you know, where somebody, you know, It's kind of like your, it's actions, actions speak louder than words, but also actions can kind of influence you. You know, it's kind of like when you, you get up and stretch and whatever, you feel a little bit, at least a little boost of energy. So it's kind of, or if you slump and sit, you're getting tired more and more tired. Right. And so it's the same thing. I think if you fall into that humility trap, you can kind of be so humble that you just all of a sudden just lack complete confidence.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

We have

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some people like that in our church. Right. I can't use them.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah. They lack the confidence and it's almost, dare I say, a waste in a sense. Right. Right. Because it's like, you can do this. There's

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potential

SPEAKER_00 23:53

there. Yeah. Yeah. You see, I mean, I've seen it all, not all the time, but I've seen it before. Like you said, where it's like, you, you are good. You're, you know, but you're just, you know, keep backing. No, no, I can't. I'm just, you know, I'm not that good or whatnot. And it's like.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Yeah. And our, you know, this is maybe a little off topic, but that's, I feel like part of our job as leaders is to try to pull that out

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of

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You know, just my past experience,

SPEAKER_00 24:42

I'd probably say the same. I would fall in a bit. category of of that you know probably could do in the past more but you know just lack the confidence

SPEAKER_02 24:51

right yeah

SPEAKER_00 24:52

and it's just use that as almost as a crutch like i'm not going to do because i don't feel like i can do that good a job i think you're yeah that's a good example yeah it's like a crutch yeah it's like but if you don't get out of that that shell i mean there's

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talk

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about that all the time if you're not applying yourself

SPEAKER_02 25:09

yeah you got to break free of the

SPEAKER_00 25:10

comfort zone yeah the comfort exactly is comfort zone get out of it yeah sometimes you gotta and then there's Sometimes you want to tell people, no, no, stay back in that comfort zone. Maybe sit back and watch us a

SPEAKER_02 25:21

little bit more. Well, it's funny because I, you know, when I was a kid, when I was 14, 14, 15, probably all the way to 16, I didn't realize how blessed I was. And I hated construction. I got to where I hated it. You know, at first it was cool, but then I just hated it. And I mean, to this day, I don't like, you know, work and slogging out in the mud in the rain or whatever. But I didn't realize the blessing of being pushed by my dad, you know, and being taught, you know, all these things. But I have been blessed even in the church realm with, I've spearheaded so many different things with, you know, being with pastor all the time, even before he was pastor and him pushing me. I mean, even playing the drums in church was a big push, you know. And so just spearheading, experimenting and failing sometimes at different ministries or ideas. And so I live on the edge of my comfort zone. And so it's just, I'm just used to it.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

You know?

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yeah. And it's been a blessing. That's true. It's, it's, I'd have to say, you know, yeah, until moving down here, you know, you just keep, when you're in that comfort zone, it's way harder to then just branch out more. Yeah. Well, and that is true

SPEAKER_02 26:31

too. It's a snowball effect because once you do branch out more, then you're like, okay, well, the worst that could happen didn't happen or it did and it wasn't that bad.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Yeah. You know, I think it is harder too as a teenager to definitely to do that because you're, you're so worried. Self-conscious. It was silly to think back and be like, who cares what everyone else thought at the time? Like you made a fool out of yourself. You messed up. And they're not thinking about

SPEAKER_02 26:52

you that much

SPEAKER_00 26:53

anyway. No, exactly. And it's like, okay, think back 15, 20 years ago. Yeah, exactly. Don't remember. I mean, unless it was pretty epic, I guess. Nowadays, maybe a bit different too because everyone's recording something or, you know, got their phones out. But

SPEAKER_02 27:06

it's like, you know, who cares? And I have learned, yeah, that people are not dwelling on you like you are dwelling Yeah. Because the thing is, think about how much do you think about other people? Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 27:19

exactly. Exactly. And it's one of those things I know just in my own life looking back and it's like, man, how many opportunities did you miss just because you were just too, you didn't want to make a fool out of yourself. You didn't want to put yourself out there. And now it's like, eh, whatever. Who cares?

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Let's go for it. You're going to laugh at me, I don't care. But it's also like we don't need the arrogant fool that doesn't know what he's doing. Right. That's not what's needed. But the expert that maybe is too humble to record a video, the expert that is too humble to say, well, I can show you something because they're like, oh, I'm not good enough. Right. We need those people to step up. The apostolic ranks need those people to step up and say, again, not with arrogance, but just as resources. Yes. We need those people to say, hey, here's something that worked for me. Yep. You know, at the very least, like here's, here's something, here's the way it works for us. Might not work for you, but this is what works for us. Right. And that's kind of what this podcast is all about is we, you know, I'm not going to steal Brother Booker's mantra, but we are not experts. Yeah. We're learning every day. I

SPEAKER_00 28:33

was going to say that earlier is, you know, it says because something works for us, doesn't mean it's going to work for you. Right. Something that's working for you, we try it, might not work for us, but expanding that kind of bubble. Yes. And finding those people and encouraging them. I think encouraging them.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Yeah, just encouraging and saying, hey, try this, you know, try it out. Put yourself out there a bit. We've had our failures too, you know, we've done, built a river and we just talked about this on, I think the last podcast, we built a river up here. It was really cool, but it took about three tries before it was cool. We had it leak all over the place and make a big mess. I, one night was down here till I think 3 a.m. Oh, No, one night I was here Sunday morning. I was still in my clothes working up here. On it, yeah. Yeah. And

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Sunday morning we did Sunday school. I remember helping you set that up with some pumps. That wasn't long after I first started. Oh, yeah. Because you had some pumps and stuff. Yeah. And then I remember trying to make the rapids and stuff. And we get that all set up. And I remember like leaving and it was like, oh, there's water coming out of the ceiling. Yeah. Down onto wherever. They were setting up something down underneath. Downstairs. Probably for the August

SPEAKER_02 29:42

services.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Yeah. Could have been. It was like, oh. No.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Now, just so people know, it was an unfinished building at the time, so it wasn't like it was

SPEAKER_00 29:49

She-Ra. I don't think we could do that now. That would be too risky. I have

SPEAKER_02 29:52

purposely not done any water features upstairs. I figured, I told Bess for one time, I said, if I ever do a water feature upstairs, there will be enough money in the Sunday School Fund for contingency for damage. But we just, yeah, we're not doing

SPEAKER_01 30:07

water features now. That would be too risky right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

All right. Well, just to recap a little bit. So- To become a leader in like a quote industry or to become an expert, you got to have the due diligence. You got to put in the time. There's what do they call it? The 10,000 hour rule. Yeah. You know, that kind of could apply, I guess. And then big fish in a small pond when your view is too narrow, you can have a risk of feeling kind of that superiority or. And again, I'm not even if you're not arrogant, you can still kind of feel like, oh, yeah, we got this. But then you look out beyond your church. maybe to a bigger church or just a different demographic. And you're like, oh, wait, actually, they're really good at this. And then the humility trap. Don't get sucked into the humility trap where you're either fake humble or, because that sounds kind of negative, where you're so humble that you're not, you are not as effective as you could be.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Right. Oh, what was I going to say? I was going to say something about that.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Well, and the reason.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Because you're kind of putting yourself in a box and you're just. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

The reason not to fall into that trap is the last point is you're needed.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

We need you. And so don't, don't be so humble that you can't show us how to do something.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

That comes, yeah, that comes to everything. Like, yeah, you got an idea, bring it out. Yeah. Talk about it. Don't just defer to, oh yeah, that was a good idea. And you had this, you didn't, maybe you don't realize what great idea you have at that moment, but tell us, show us, oh wow, let's try that. And it, you know, whatever it may be, it could be crazy or we might just tell you no. Yeah. Maybe you got another better one next time.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Yeah. And that's where the humility comes in is if you're like, this is super cool and accept some feedback. Like, well, it's actually not that cool. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Oh, okay. We tried that before. It didn't work out. But don't shut down from that, I guess. That would be a big thing. Yeah. Don't let

SPEAKER_02 32:03

it pop your bubble.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

You know, the, what is that saying? Something along the line of the question not ask or is the, I can't even think of it. Yeah. I, I, I can't even think of like the, uh, I can't even think of the sports metaphor. Somebody, somebody email us at

SPEAKER_02 32:20

info at, uh, where are we at? Kidman backstage.com.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

The shot missed is a shot not taken. Something along those lines. I'm sure there's some. Oh

SPEAKER_02 32:29

yeah. Like you miss a hundred percent

SPEAKER_00 32:31

of the shots you don't take. Yeah. There's that. Yeah. I think there's another one in there. You let us know.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

All right. Well, I do want to, we'll, we'll title it something clever or there we go. And, uh, and we'll try to, um, you know, sneak it in so it doesn't sound like the same topic but I do want to talk about this again because I think it's a really interesting topic the tipping point from where you are looking for the resources to where you become kind of the resource you know the leader of the industry

SPEAKER_00 33:01

so to speak and I was going to say something earlier you've been in this for a while I've been here now 14 years and it's like you've always been kind of that one over Sunday school over youth and it's like even looking back then it's like wow we were doing a lot back then but to where we are now it's like yeah

SPEAKER_02 33:17

it's

SPEAKER_00 33:18

changed a lot yeah so

SPEAKER_02 33:20

and we want to do we want it to be even more you know keep on improving

SPEAKER_00 33:24

you know that's 14 years you figure okay you're an expert not by now but there's still always that learning yeah it's like yeah there's people that come to

SPEAKER_02 33:30

you like oh that's a

SPEAKER_00 33:31

cool idea on your perspective too it's like there's this person that's like oh yeah up here oh that person you know and you're so it's cool it's cool to see definitely all right well I think that's a wrap okie dokie sign off I'll tell next time.