UNKNOWN 0:00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Welcome to another episode, the place where we talk about kids ministry and take a peek behind the scenes. We try to share a little bit of what we've learned that works for us and some of our failures so you can avoid them. We release a new episode every Friday, and this is your Backstage Pass to see the magic or disaster that happens behind the scenes of our kids ministry. I'm your host, Gabe Baker, and today I'm joined by Brother Miles. How's it going? I'm doing very good. Thank you for having me. Yeah, this is one of our first studio ones here. Yeah, I

SPEAKER_02 0:46

feel the bright lights.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Yeah. So we're trying out some video. We'll see if this gets posted or not. But what are we talking about today? We're talking about details matter. Details matter. And so especially when you're trying to video and all this stuff, you know, I was getting set up and I told you, I was like, man, I'm going to be wore out before we get started. Yeah, you're bouncing all over. Cameras and cords and computers. So little things can make a big difference. So like, have you ever told a joke and you forget the crucial part of the setup? You know, you're like, oh, Oh, I forgot to tell you. And you got to go back and it's just dumb. It's not even funny anymore. Or maybe you give away the punchline early. So in our family, we often listen to audio, like stories, audio dramas and stuff. And so I, I really like audio dramas, but I'm the kind of person that prefer, like, I want to sit down and don't do anything else except maybe grab a snack, you know, some popcorn or something, sit there and listen to the story. And so I'm the guy, I'm that, that guy that, that if there's a story playing and people are like talking over it and being loud or whatever, I'm the guy that goes and turns the story off. And everybody's like, Hey, what are you doing? I'm like, well, nobody's listening to it anyway. I want to hear the story, but that's because the details are important to me. And so that's, um, I, I think there is, there is two sides to this and maybe one day we'll do a podcast about, you know, don't sweat the small stuff. It's like the, the opposite of this one. We'll have to give it a few episodes, but, um, So I think there is a balance. But I do think that kids, they can be even more focused on details than we might imagine. Yeah. And so there's things that stick out to kids. I remember when I was a kid, there's things that stick out to kids that we don't even notice because we're adults. And so we just kind of forget about it or whatever. And so we need to take a step back, I think, in kids ministry and double check and say, like, are we paying enough attention to detail?

SPEAKER_02 2:47

It was very interesting. so I did a little looking up and I found this quote that was it kind of made me think a little bit it was by John Wooden and

SPEAKER_01 2:57

he said yeah the basketball coach

SPEAKER_02 2:58

yeah I've never even heard of him until I I'm not a sports guy but the quote is it's the little details that are vital little things make big things happen and like I mentioned I had never heard of John Wooden I'm not a sports guy at all and I did a little research and it's crazy this guy was extremely successful

SPEAKER_01 3:16

very successful

SPEAKER_02 3:18

he won 10 NCAA champions and seven of those were in a row.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

That's crazy, isn't it? And the only other

SPEAKER_02 3:24

person or team that came close, they had to then pour in a row. Wow. So that means he was looking into the details and a lot of that kind of stuff. So I was thinking about it. I remember there's a saying that Brother Booker says is big doors swing on surprisingly small

SPEAKER_01 3:42

hinges. Oh, yes. That's so good. Yes. I remember that. I remember him saying that before. Yeah. Yeah. Man, we could have titled the podcast that. Yeah. But yeah, that John Wood, I'm not a big sports guy either. The only reason I know about him is from John C. Maxwell.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

So that was one of John C. Maxwell's like kind of like a mentor almost. He went, he asked to interview him. And so he was able to go interview him, I think in his home.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

And then he met with him several times before he passed away during that time. So he talks a lot about him. Um, one thing, I don't know if this is from Maxwell or not, but one little, just a little side story about John Wooden that I thought was incredible. I use this in, at the children's seminar a couple of years ago, um, at the kids ministry seminar. But he, he would watch his players like in practice, like towards the beginning of the season, he would watch them and he would see their habits of like where they shoot from. And he would see, you know, like their, their sweet spot, so to speak. And so then he would go down on the court and I could just imagine like the first time he ever did this, you know, but he would go down on the court. He had like some chalk or something. I don't know if it was concrete or gym floor or what, but he would put a circle and he pointed at the player and he said, you shoot from here. And that's the only place you shoot from. You shoot from here. It's my job to design plays that get you here. okay I did not know about that that's crazy isn't that awesome that is and I use the analogy as and this is not really our topic but I use the analogy that we're we're leaders in Sunday school and so and it can be like with staff or it can even be with kids but there's everybody has a sweet spot and it's our job to design the plays the script to get put the actors and the staff in their sweet spot you know I like that play on words there that plays Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Anyway, um, pretty John wouldn't. Yeah. Pretty incredible. He has a lot of good quotes and stuff. So, um, on the notes here, I got a little things add up and it's kind of like that big door swing on small hinges. I put a reference there, Luke 16, 10, you know, faithful being faithful in the small things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Yeah. I believe that second half is make you a ruler over many things.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Yeah, I think so. I didn't put the whole thing in there, but, um, Yeah, I mean, so the thing is, is like... I think that little things, okay, here's an example, and I didn't really write any of this down, but I just remember reading somewhere about Steve Jobs. When he first, you know, he was big on details, but when he first designed the very first Mac or Macintosh, when he first designed it, I think in the garage with Steve Wozniak or whatever, some of the people that he was working with just basically We were like, what are you doing? When he was being so meticulous about the insides. I'm not a computer technician, but a motherboard or whatever it was, he was like lining up the wires and he made a statement, something like, if somebody does take this apart, I want them to see the attention to detail. Now, that's pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Yeah. When you were saying that, my mind went back to the Old Testament. I know this is kind of just talking about details. but how about, um, I can't even remember what part of the tabernacle is, but there's this part way up high and they did all this engraving and everything. And you couldn't see it from standing on the ground, but only God was the one that could see it. And all the, all the details that they put into the building of the, the tabernacle and everything and how obviously God isn't very concerned about the details.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Right. Yeah. Well, and that's a good point too, is like, I have tried to, and I try to teach this to others, but, You know, I do a lot around the church and have for a long time since I was pretty young, wearing a lot of hats, doing a lot of work, working in the church till, you know, two o'clock in the morning or whatever on some project. And I remember when I was younger, I could have the feeling like, where's everybody else at? You know, why aren't they helping? And so I have changed that for a few reasons. One, I realized that there's different people have different strengths. They have sweet spots, right? Yeah. So different sweet spots. But I also have changed, or at least tried to change my thinking to kind of like to, I am doing this for the Lord. And so when nobody sees me up here on Sunday, after Sunday school, cleaning the toilet and the bathroom, nobody sees me taking out the garbage or vacuuming the floors instead of having an attitude like, where's somebody else that could do this? Or why isn't somebody else helping? And they would. If I asked, anybody would help.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

But

SPEAKER_01 8:52

instead, taking pride, and that could be a bad word, I guess, but taking pride in the fact that I'm doing the small things, I'm being consistent, I'm being faithful in the small things, and I'm doing it as unto the Lord. So I think that's another key thing with the small things add up. And then there's a snowball effect, right? There is a snowball effect. And it can be good. Or bad.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

It can definitely. It can definitely be good or bad. It's that snowball effect. There's so many stories that popped into my mind when I think about the snowball effect. I mean, good and bad. There was one that stood out in my mind. I guess maybe more over the little things beyond that. But there's a story I heard of a young lady. It was her first job. She was 16, 17 years old. She was an apostolic young lady. She was so excited. She got her job at McDonald's. All right. It was her very first day. She kind of was like, there's a rush hour going on. She wasn't really told a whole lot what to do, but she saw that the trash was overfilling, needed to be taken out. So without any hesitation or anybody asking or telling her that was her job, she just goes over, takes out the trash and puts it away and starts cleaning up around the area. And I don't know if it was the manager or the owner of several different McDonald's saw that and he's like, hey, come over here. He's like, did anybody tell you to take that out? She's like, no, nobody told me to. take it out I just saw that it needed to be done

SPEAKER_00 10:20

he's

SPEAKER_02 10:21

like how much are you making she's like To be honest, I have no clue how much I'm making. I'm just excited to have my first job. He's like, well, congratulations, you just got yourself a dollar raise.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

That's pretty cool. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's awesome. And that is true. I think that when we take a look at those little things and we're just like, okay, I'm just going to be faithful. I'm just going to do it. We're blessed. It might not be as blatantly obvious as that. Exactly. But I do believe, you know, we've talked about before on the podcast about unquantifiable things. I believe that sometimes it's not quantifiable. It's not something you can point out and say, Oh, it's because it's because I took out the trash because I vacuumed the floors, but it's just the snowball effect of all these little things.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

I mean, and we can talk about children's ministry. I mean, like there's sometimes like, I mean, you, you can probably testify to this day. Anybody can, you don't see any reward or benefit of reaching children. And like there, they're, they throw up, they can make masses and you don't see the reward. And then all of a sudden one day you see it.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Years go by and then they finally, they get in church and they get the Holy ghost. Are you here? They moved away. And then, Oh, but guess what? You finally get a phone call on you or you meet them at a conference and you see that they get, they got the Holy ghost. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Yes. Yep. Yeah. And that's, yeah, it pays off in the end. Um, the other thing with the snowball effect is that there's the good and the bad is I think that if you, uh, If you neglect details for long enough... If you pay attention to the details long enough, it snowballs and everything builds up. But if you neglect details long enough, then, you know, there comes a time when it's like, you know, it feels like everything's falling apart. And it's not a coincidence. It's just that all these things are culminating. Yeah. And now it's like the results are starting to show. Yeah. From however long. It might be weeks, years, whatever. And it is starting to show. And yes, now it is unraveling and it is falling apart. Yeah. Because those small details, they snowball into something very big. It is that straw that broke the camel's back. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think one thing, like with Sunny School, is you can... set expectations for kids and you can set them how do I say it like unintentionally right and so you can be you can do things a certain way and this is again kids pick up on details but you can do things a certain way so kids come to expect it and that could be a good thing or a bad thing and so if you are like if every time you do the plan of salvation segment And you're boring.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

They're going to expect it.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Yeah. And you don't put any prep into it or you don't. So they're going to expect. So then soon as maybe if it's a theme and we have the same music, as soon as that music comes on, they know it's plan salvation. They're like, okay, here's time to take a little nap here for a couple of minutes. And then, then you have to fight through that. If it's, even if it's super good that week. And so I think that we can, you know, set the kids expectation on purpose, you know, by having, being purposeful with the details, you know. So I think that's kind of a key thing in our Sunday school ministry, you know, from day to week, day, week to week. Yeah. So, all right. Well, I have another thing I talked about a little bit already, but kids notice things that we don't think of. So Adrian, my son, he's 16 and he's staff and runs the AV most of the time. But he was in Sunday school and I remember, I've talked about this a little bit before, but he would like notice things that I didn't even think about. I'm running the Sunday school and he would like ask me when we got home, he'd be like, why did Festus have Radigan's sword? I'm just like, I don't know. You know, back here and backstage, we're just grabbing, like grab me a sword. We're he would notice or like if somebody put on the wrong tunic or something you know he'd be like why do you have a different color shirt on than last week you know yeah and he would notice that and and he actually when I mean here he is six seven years old and he's noticing these things it made me be on my toes more because I was like so I would get to where I'd be backstage like no no no don't grab that sword get the other sword because Adrian's gonna know

SPEAKER_02 15:23

that is funny I I can remember the same as a kid I remember picking up on details and stuff I mean no so mostly as conversations I should probably should have not been paying attention to or probably shouldn't like it's just yeah presence or surprises like yeah or I can remember I can't remember that I wish I was racking my brain and I can't remember what it was but there was a certain situation that my sister like I was not wanting her to pick up on it and she of course radically way she picks up on it and I'm like I was like oh you gotta be kidding me yeah I just remember that feeling and then there's kids they got they got a long memory yeah that's good it's good in dad yeah like there's I'm for those of you who don't know the audience my sister and I we have a pretty big age gap there's 12 years between us so there's things to this day that she remembers and I'm like I've long gone for I've forgotten I've gotten over the embarrassment because I forgot it and then Oh, she's. She'll bring it up. She'll bring it up. I'm like, oh, I can't. Yep. I do remember doing

SPEAKER_01 16:25

that. That's funny. Yeah. Yeah. Kids do. And it's funny because kids will pick up on some of the most random things. And so like, you know, you're a new parent. Yeah, I am. Yeah. Congratulations, by the way. So it's funny because kids will pick up on stuff that their parents do that you don't notice that you do.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

So, okay, a long time ago, I have a brother and we got a pretty big age gap too. And so we were at McDonald's one time. He was really little. And we were, my mom, I just remember my mom, I don't even really remember the incident so much, but I remember my mom talking about it. But she looked over and he is just like cramming fries in his mouth like crazy. I mean, he's just going to town. And she's like, well, is he starving or, you know, what? she's like looking and then she said she looked around and everybody in like the general area was just cramming fries and whatever in their mouth and they were doing it you know fast so he was just saw what you know he was just copying what he saw and then and then kids will say something you know and sometimes it's unfortunate but they'll say words you know that I don't mean bad words but they'll say like a word you know something like

SPEAKER_00 17:50

where

SPEAKER_01 17:50

did you Yeah. Like my, my other son's six years old and he'll say some stuff, you know, the kids have a big gap. So 16 and my, my daughter's 19 and then six years old. So he's around, you know, however they talk. And so he says stuff, he's fairly articulate and he'll say things that are like kind of, wait a minute, he's six years old. Yeah. My daughter said something I can't remember about. Oh, how did she say it? She said, everybody, everybody left or something. There's no church tonight or something. Everybody. I can't remember what it was, something, you know, just trying to trick him. And he, she said, he looked at her and he's like, That can't be true. Wow. That's just, that can't be true. Yeah. So yeah, they pick up on, on stuff. And so with that, the thing is, is, you know, we, in our Sunday school, we do a lot of acting and, you know, dramas and stuff, but I put a note that we are always on stage. Yeah. And so we have to remember that. I mean, even when we go into church to quote unquote, big church, you know, we are always on stage. And so that's, man, that's a big responsibility. It is a big weight. Huge.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

They're always watching. They are. They're always watching. And they always, it was funny. There was a little two year old boy and the parents came up to me. It was actually this past Sunday morning, came up to me after church. And it's like, I guess I was, I was, when I was singing on the platform, I was doing some sort of motion with my hand and stuff like that. And she looks over at her son and she's like, never seen him do it before and oh wow she doesn't do it and his dad doesn't do it and then she looks up at me and like there I am I'm doing it they're just copying

SPEAKER_01 19:50

that's funny that's a great example what I mean yeah they pick up on the littlest little random thing that you don't even notice you're not even paying attention to and then here they are they're making it into a thing yeah yeah so we have to be careful because we are we're always on the stage all right so power in perfection I just I love alliteration, so I put two Ps there, power and perfection. But we can't be perfect by any means. And there's people that say, oh, I'm a perfectionist, or it just means that they're opinionated. But if we can think of details and try to be as perfect as possible, It's kind of like all the details that add up right. And, you know, a little thing on his shoulder or whatever. And it's just adding, it's these little details that he adds to his costume because it all adds up and makes it awesome. And his costumes are incredible. He does. He does a phenomenal job. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's amazing. And so, yes, the culmination of all those details.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

I also came across another quote. I figured I'd share it and put my little two cents in it. Yeah. It says, attention to detail is not about perfection. It's about excellence, about confidence. Oh, that's

SPEAKER_01 21:43

good. Yeah. So

SPEAKER_02 21:44

who's that by? Do you know? I forgot to write it down.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Something that I want to put out there, you know, that I want to publish or it's not perfect. You know, in fact, that's kind of what's holding me back from putting our survival quest theme.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Okay. That's right. I do

SPEAKER_01 22:30

remember you talking about that. I guess the other thing is like, instead of looking at this bit, you know, you eat an elephant one bite at a time, right? Instead of looking at this big picture, like how can we make our Sunday school ministry better? Man, we need a better bus ministry. We need better outreach. We need better altar service. We need better, you know, oh man, we want costumes like they have over there. We want to do a slide like Brother Gabe. I'm known for slides. We want to have, man, we wish we had a backstage like them. Instead of, you know, look looking at just you do want to step back and look at the big picture sometimes but instead of just doing that as saying okay there are details that we can just we can just slowly be well let's make this better let's make that better let's shore up let's let's do better costumes our costumes are not great so let's shore those up let's do like one detail we did years ago is we got mics okay for acting because you know kids couldn't understand what was going on so we got mics so like just shoring up those little details and I'm not saying we have it all together because we don't but working towards it and just shoring up each of those each of those details so then think of the term like we use it all the time like oh they're like a well oiled machine yeah or like you know it's operating like a well oiled machine and I think that is kind of like what we're talking about is that's the culmination of all these details and then working just at top-notch level at every facet. And Pastor kind of talks about this all the time. It's like, he talks about, you know, man, we want, if our outreach was on point, if our discipleship was on point, and our altar workers were on point, our music ministry is just, you know, if all these factions of the church are just operating at top-notch like a well-oiled machine, well, man, we're unstoppable. So in kids' ministry, if we can look at that and I have this note that we have to manage the details and so you have to kind of stay on top of it You know what I mean? Like work on these details, perfect them, quote unquote, perfect them best you can, make them as good as you can, but then you have to operate, you know, utilizing those details. Kind of like don't grab the wrong sword. You know, you had to, you had to move forward and operate and say, okay, so from now on we're going to grab the right sword. I,

SPEAKER_02 25:20

there was a, uh, one thing I, uh, I had a, when I was starting my career, I had a perfection, but it's okay if it's not perfect.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Yeah. Especially

SPEAKER_02 25:33

because like... sometimes like you're caught there's been a couple times I'm like oh I need to do this oh no I need to be out there right now I'm supposed to be on stage right now yeah I don't got enough time more okay we're gonna we're gonna go with this and let's let's do this

SPEAKER_01 25:46

yeah and that's that is the nature of our our study school right it's like yeah you keep on adding like I'll do that too I'll be like hey give me a wig okay give me give me a hat oh I need some glasses yep how about a beard what about a beard what oh let's see let's add Oh, timer's done. I gotta go. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. So one of the things that I was thinking about is you can't set it and forget it in the context of these details. And I think that I've talked about before that ideas are a dime a dozen. And I think that sometimes, again, I keep on wanting to qualify myself because I know I'm going to do another podcast that's going to sound opposite. So there is like where there's leadership and you want to look in broad strokes and say okay we're going this direction let's figure it out yeah but we're going in this direction but I think that there's so many times when people are like oh we should do this and they don't realize at all the work that goes into it and they're not going to put the work into it either and that's where I guess I've been on that back end so much I've been backstage and that's why this is called backstage I've been backstage enough on kids ministry and events and all kinds of things behind the scenes that I realize what it takes to make it happen

SPEAKER_02 27:25

yeah it's kind of in other words it's not time to reinvent the wheel yeah yeah exactly there's a situation that I kind of correlates to what you were talking about I was helping somebody in the church they were selling a home and they needed some electrical taken care of so I helped them out They gave me a little bit of money. And I was down there fixing it. And I'm like, well, why is this wire here? We don't need it running from here to here. yanked that out, threw it off to the side and forgot about it. Well, I start wrapping everything up, putting everything back together and all of a sudden all the lights in there, all the bathrooms don't work. They have no power in the bathrooms and halfway up the hallway I'm like, okay, start testing, start testing, start testing, start testing. Well, come to find out about 10 hours later, I finally realized that wire that was there that I didn't think was important. Guess what? It was important. There was a use for that wire after all. So if it's If it's not broken, maybe let's just leave it as is. I mean, we can still improve. We can still improve in the context of children's ministry. But also, you're talking about the broad strokes of making things work. In art, they often talk about what makes art so pleasant is because they paid attention to the details.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Yeah. And even art critics, you'll hear them talk as if they had such an eye for detail.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a really good example because... Like I think about that even in music. I remember I used to be music director ages ago here, but there's four more qualified people that are doing that now. But I remember when you would hear like a cover of a song and they even put out an album of it and you hear the original and there was just, it seemed like they were hitting everything right. Seemed like the right notes, right chords and everything. everything but there was just something different yeah and I remember pastor pastor Burgess is actually pretty musically talented and a lot of people don't know that but I remember him showing me things like you know well instead of you know the cover they're hitting this chord okay but the original they're they're adding a ninth or whatever or or they're they're adding this minor or you know just whatever kind of details and it makes it a little bit more full or gives it this sharper sound or whatever and then like just little things like you know I play the drums and so little things like oh on the hi-hat there you know they're adding in triplets right here just and it's just it's subtle and now we use a lot of for learning songs where you will purchase the tracks the split tracks and so my son you know he practices all the time and so now it's It's even more pronounced, that idea, to me, because you'll listen to, like, say, the piano track, or a good example is a synth track or something. You'll listen to that on a song, and this is this jamming song, really big song, or slow, whatever. It's a really good song. And so you have these split tracks, and it's just isolated. So it means it's only the synth and nothing else.

UNKNOWN 30:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

And you're listening and you're just sitting there like forever. Yeah. And then all of a sudden he goes, da, da, da. And that's it. Yeah. And you wait and then it does something else and then it'll do some cool run or something. Then maybe they'll start playing some chords to the chorus and then it's quiet again. And, and it's like, okay, that's incredible details because they're not, you know, back in the day when in home missions where you just have a piano, you play everything you're playing really full on your left hand. You're going to keep that baseline going and, and you're, you're playing the rhythm, you know, and your chords You know, but when you got this full band and you're doing all this, you know, and the orchestra, I guess, would be even more of an example of where it's like, you know, you got a couple notes. Yeah. In strategic places, but all together, it's awesome. Yeah. I mean, that guy with

SPEAKER_02 31:42

the

SPEAKER_01 31:43

triangle.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

I'm

SPEAKER_01 31:45

sorry. I know. I just think about that. The triangle. The triangle. Yeah. Have you seen the triangle solo? It was some kind of... I think it was a commercial for insurance. I can't remember. Oh, it's so funny. I can't remember. Somebody showed it to me because we were thinking of doing something like it for Heart of Christmas. Okay,

SPEAKER_02 32:06

okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

But this guy, it's like this band or something, and I might ruin this. I can't remember exactly how it goes. And the guy comes out with a triangle, and he comes sliding out on his knees as if he had an electric guitar. But he comes sliding across the stage on his knees, and he's got the triangle. He's a ding, ding, ding, ding. and he's like behind the back and all this stuff with the triangle that's crazy that's funny so yeah taking the details a little too far yeah all right well just to recap here so the little things add up be faithful in the small things Luke 16 10 and and it can have a snowball effect like we talked about those little things add up and I think I think that one of the best examples is the negative side you know where you just like you know if you don't don't vacuum the floor and you don't clean the restroom. I mean, you know, you give it a month here, it would take even less time. It's going to be a, it's going to be, yeah, a disaster. And then kids notice. So kids notice the small things. We're always on stage. Got to remember that, that we are always setting an example. They, and they notice the most random

SPEAKER_02 33:16

things. We're an ambassadors everywhere we go, even in the grocery store. Yes. You don't know what, there may be a bus kid just around the corner.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Yeah. Oh yeah. and I've had it happen all the time and then I'm trying to remember their name or something oh that's bad you know I'm like oh hey you and then even now because we do our August the August conference we have our children's church up here now people from other churches sometimes you know be at a different conference or youth rally or something they'll be like they'll come up and it's not just me I mean they'll come up and ask me like what's the thing going to be or whatever but they'll recognize brother Arthur talking about somebody from I think his brother Sizzles or somewhere they recognized him you know like and said you know called out his name from he was one of the characters he wasn't even like the main character he was a main character but oh Theophilus like Theophilus he was like the old guy in the pirate story so anyway yeah they remember random things and in Power and Perfection that could be a podcast right there that but we can't be perfect but if we can have if we can work on all those details to become a well oiled machine and we can have all of them as perfect as possible then we're unstoppable exactly and then manage the details you can't just decide like okay this is a detail that we want and then forget it you have to manage through it you have to keep keep it up you know yeah all right well I guess we're at all right sounds good thank you All right