UNKNOWN 0:00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Welcome to another episode, the place where we talk about kids ministry and take a peek behind the scenes. We try to share a little bit of what we've learned that works for us and some of our failures so you can avoid them. We release a new episode every Friday, and this is your Backstage Pass to see the magic or disaster that happens behind the scenes of our kids ministry. I'm your host, Gabe Baker, and today I'm joined by Brother Aaron. Hey, how's it going? Good. I'm glad we finally got to do this. Your schedule's kind of crazy now. It

SPEAKER_02 0:47

is.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Yep. It's been a minute. Yeah. All right. Well, what's our title today? title today is bashful boxer bashful boxer so have you ever seen the beginning like of a boxing match and you know we don't watch tv but i've even seen it like even with friends or you know when we've you know casually boxed or something yeah where the opponents are just kind of dancing around just out of reach of each other yep and so like as an audience if you're on the side it's easy to you don't want to push it you're like go go go you know do something but it looks a lot different from inside the ring when you're inside the ring you're acutely aware of the danger of the fact that one misstep could cause severe pain. And of course, the winners are the ones that have prepared before they ever stepped foot into the ring. And so, you know, they push themselves to the limit time and time again. And, you know, they know what they're capable of because they've practiced, done it over and over. So they launch out, they attack, and sure, they might have to defend and even dodge and weave, but ultimately they execute on all that preparation that they've done. So to reference the title, a bashful boxer, imagine a boxer that is too worried about what the people in the audience think to even execute. They wonder if they should have worn a different color or does the ref think his breath stinks or, you know, this is extreme, even silly, but we find ourselves in the quote ring every Sunday. And I dare say that sometimes we feel inadequate.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Very So, you know, we talk about things being old hat. And even on this podcast, we've talked about just slipping into that role. You know, you could be out in here talking about the weather and then you go outside these doors and start being a character and you just slip right into this, right in the flow. Yeah, yeah. The confidence thing for me is huge, even though I'm not so much in Sunday school at this point, but in a lot of areas in life, I still fight that.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

But

SPEAKER_02 3:04

you always rely like a boxer, always

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rely back on your training. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

I can't remember the last time I messed up in the pulpit or had a flub. I had one last Wednesday.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Oh, did you? Do you remember? I don't. I don't remember. Last Wednesday, our pastor was gone. Our pastor was gone to church. I do remember. Remember this? I

SPEAKER_02 4:04

can't remember what it was, but I do remember. Okay, I'll tell you. It was, we were getting ready to sing the song Waymaker. And I've been exhorting and encouraging the church. And I say, how many, lift your hands if you know that God's a may waker. Yes,

SPEAKER_00 4:19

I remember

SPEAKER_02 4:19

that. And then I'm like, I just act like I didn't even say it. But the rest of the service, oh, I just felt like an idiot. I just beat myself up. People come, oh, that was so funny. And I just, every time, I mean, I do the same thing to anybody else, but you're like, yeah, you're right. I'm an idiot. But you know what? You get up the next service and nobody's going to remember that.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Nobody remembers that. Yeah. You remember it still, obviously, but a week later, but yeah, nobody's going to remember that. Not at all. Yeah. That's funny. I do remember now that you mentioned it. I totally forgot about it. I think I even said something when you said it. I was like, oh, Mayweather. Better than haymaker. Yeah. All right. Well, I wrote some notes down. And so I have a bullet point that talks about false bravado. And so, you know, some of us are more self-conscious than others. And some people. So there's some people that don't seem to care. And I wrote this kind of note. but um they don't seem to like have a care in the world they seem like they're quote-unquote confident but they're not the kind of people you want to be like

SPEAKER_02 5:33

yes

SPEAKER_01 5:33

you know what i mean they're the the idiots

SPEAKER_02 5:35

yeah they're the ones that don't care in the wrong way

SPEAKER_01 5:37

yeah in the wrong way so they're confident and they're always sticking their foot in the mouth or whatever but i've also seen um i've also seen like the confidence and i just i wrote this bullet point because i kind of want to get this out of the way, this part of it, about false bravado. But I've seen the confidence of people that... Okay, let me give you an example. We have a lot of people that go to college in our church, and it's good. We have some pretty highly educated people that are young. But I have seen it, and I'm thinking of somebody that doesn't even go to church here anymore, but I've seen it where a young person, they're like 17, we do Running Start here, so they're They're 17. They go to one year of college. Oh, yeah. And all of a sudden, they are so smart.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Everyone's

SPEAKER_01 6:30

an idiot. Yeah. Everyone else is an idiot because they learned this, you know, some concept or something or whatever. Yeah. It's funny. Now, my daughter does not fall into that category at all. But it's funny because, you know, I've helped her a lot with her schoolwork and I'll see stuff and I'm like, oh, yeah, I use this all the time. You know, I use this principle all the time or, you know, whatever. And so anyway, it's just kind of funny. And I use that college as an example. But there's so many times when you see not just the idiot that puts their foot in their mouth, you know, but also on another level you see people that they're confident all of a sudden they're And they like, shouldn't be, you know,

SPEAKER_02 7:18

too early. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Yeah. No, you're not all

SPEAKER_02 7:22

that. Exactly. So yeah, the false vibrato really sticks out with me too, because ever so often I do it on purpose just to, so I remember when I was young, I was in the, I remember pastor asked me when I was 11 years old, I just started playing the bass and band.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Was that 11? Wow. 11 years old. I remember back when you started playing

SPEAKER_02 7:45

bass. Yeah. And he approached me and I couldn't even look at him. It was like my first real conversation with him. He was not pastor at the time, but I mean, officially, right? Yeah. But he asked me if I would play in church and I couldn't even look at him. My mom was sitting next to me, elbowing me. Look at him. Look at him. Look him in the eye.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

So this is where your son gets that. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Absolutely. And my wife's pretty bashful as well, but it was terrible. So I've been on the platform since I was 11. Wow. But I never... I don't want to say never felt worthy. I just always was very self-conscious. And so I was the one that would overdo things to show how confident I was.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Oh, like

SPEAKER_02 8:27

overplay? I had like 20 minutes that was for me, right, as a graduate.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

And the pastor had me sing. And in that moment, I was nervous. I was sweaty. I was shaking. I was nervous just as all get out. But I look at that video and I'm like, if I knew that kid, I would have punched him in the mouth. Because I just came across as just a jerk, an arrogant cocky jerk. Oh, that's funny. Oh, wow. And I didn't feel that way at all. But I overdid my confidence to show how confident I was.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Right, right. Terrible. That's a great example of false bravado. Yeah, that's really good.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

And another thing too on that is I would get compliments. So we'd have a worship service or have a rally and ministers or other people that I highly looked up to would compliment me. And pastor got me one time, oh man, chewed me out because it got back to Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

And then there's the bravado that is like where people, they truly are confident because they're just too ignorant to know better. construction, commercial construction. And we were high up in the air in a lift and we were just talking and he was always like, he was like my superior. He was a journeyman. I was a journeyman, I think at the time, but he was like, had way more experience than I did. So he was showing me how to do stuff all the time.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Well, we got to talking about speaking in tongues somehow.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Yeah. I can't remember. It was about the Bible or something. And he was going on like, oh yeah, well that was because, you know, they, they were, going to minister to other countries and everyone. And I stopped and I was like, you know, and so it was like, I don't know that I looked up to him necessarily, but it was kind of in the workplace I did, I guess, you know, he was like my leader or whatever. And I stopped and I was like, well, no, no, that's not what it was at all. And so I kind of almost did like a mini Bible study as we're working, you know, about 80 feet in the air. And he, and it was, And I was like, I surprised myself. Sure. Because I didn't feel confident at all. Right. I didn't feel like I knew the ins and outs of this, you know, of speaking in tongues and everything. But I kind of was just like, the stuff I did know, I was like, no, it wasn't that at all. Yeah. And it was really funny, his response. He just like, oh, oh, okay. I didn't know that. You know, it was just like, and it totally, totally gave me different perspective of him. It didn't lower him necessarily, but it was like, okay, wait a minute. He's just a guy, you know, that just, you know, and he sounds like he knows a lot about stuff and he does about some stuff, but maybe not everything, you know? And I know the pastor says that sometimes, you know, if you are working with a guy, he's a great welder. It doesn't mean that he's great at everything. It doesn't mean he knows, he might know everything about welding, but it doesn't mean he knows anything about the Bible. In fact, Most likely not. Most likely not. Yeah. And so, yeah, it just kind of gave me a totally – and I don't know that he necessarily had false bravado, but it was like he was talking because he had read something or heard something. And he was talking with all the confidence in the world. And he was wrong. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Very true.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Yeah. So then let's move on. So the second bullet point I have here is supreme confidence. And so there's those people that they're just – They're just so confident. They're not acting like idiots. They seem so comfortable on stage. They can, you know, make jokes about themselves. Yeah. They're just completely confident. Yep. And that's, those are the kind of people that, you know, I strive to be like that. That's what I want to be like. One of the things is I, and I still don't, I still am working on this, I think, but I learned this a long time ago, is don't take yourself too seriously.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Because that's one of those, you know, you see somebody that's, I mean, I guess not everybody, but you see somebody that's super confident and they seem like really authoritative. Yeah. And then they can break, you know, quote unquote, break character. They can just be like, laugh at themselves. Yeah. You know.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Yeah. It's something to look up to. I do find myself trying to slide into that because I stick my foot in my mouth a lot. But what's cool, you know, from a Sunday school standpoint, is I think we've mentioned this before, but when you mess up here, like on stage as a character, we just go with it. Yeah, yeah. We're like, like my phone will ring or something. This has never happened, but for example, like I'll be in Moses' garb with a beard and long hair and like robes on and my phone ring in my pocket. I'll go with it. I'll pull it out and answer it and say, yeah, yeah, exactly. And the kids, you know, and just they make it funny even though it's something

SPEAKER_01 14:49

I shouldn't have done. Yeah, like had you said may Yeah, so one of the things that I wanted to say is like, we've talked about it in different podcasts, but the preparation and what I mentioned earlier in the synopsis there about boxer that is able to launch his attack or whatever he's it's all based off of his preparation and that's that's the winner is the winner is probably I would say most of the time now I'm not super into boxing so I don't know all the ins and outs

SPEAKER_00 15:37

sure

SPEAKER_01 15:37

but in fact I read the synopsis to my son Adrian because he is into boxing and so I was like hey does this sound right yeah sounds good I got his approval but you know I think that a lot of times the winning and this is not just boxing this is in in almost anything yeah comes down to the preparation if you have if you have two athletes that are basically equally matched it comes down to who prepped more absolutely you know

SPEAKER_02 16:06

yeah i don't want to bring sports into it a lot but i remember reading about kobe bryant specifically oh um and and listening to interviews after he passed away and people are like they hated him in a good way oh like Yeah, yeah, yeah. but they don't ride on that natural gift alone. You know, if you take somebody that's a natural speaker and that's all they do, what they say is going to wind up being very shallow. But when they take that and then dive into, for example, a minister, they know their Bible. They've spent hours reading, hours studying, hours praying. They're natural in the pulpit, but then there's the depth that comes into that because of the preparation.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yeah. Yeah. I remember there was a preacher here one time, long time ago, and And he preached – I can't remember his title or whatever, but he basically preached through the whole Bible in a way. It wasn't like super long. I mean, it was lengthy, but it wasn't like two hours or anything like that. But I remember asking – this was years ago. And I remember asking Pastor, like, how did he do that? Because he wasn't really referencing notes. And Pastor was like, well – and this preacher was a studier. And he was like, well, he said, you get to where you basically, you might have notes and stuff, but you know it so well inside and out that you can preach it, you know, and you can just go through it. And so now that makes a lot more sense to me just because, you know, maybe I do know some of those things better. But I feel like that is in itself kind of preparation.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

You know, it's not like to go back to Kobe. Brian or something it's not like okay it's because he practiced this one play over and over he might have but it's because he practiced the fundamentals and was just there day in day out he went to the gym and lifted weights whatever you know all these things he ran and so that's and so coming all the way back we're getting way off here but coming all the way back to Sunday school that's the prep and we've talked about script and stuff in the past and so and yeah we we do we have uh script and um lately we've done a couple object lessons and so i've practiced those beforehand you know brother booker says practice them beforehand and he's right oh we had uh oh you weren't here in here last sunday no last sunday uh uh brother brennan we were we had to do filler because we we went over like an hour and 40 something minutes and so um So we were trying to do filler. So brother Brian was going to do his fire thing. Oh, he hadn't done it in quite a while. And so he grabs his stuff off the shelf and epic fail. He lit the thing on fire and did the, to spit it, you know, and it goes a big fireball and it just didn't do it. I, in fact, I was over there. I turned the lights off right when he was going to do it. It didn't do it. So he, instead he ate the fire, you know, he swallowed the fire, which he's done. So at least he did that. Well, come to find out somebody, the container that carried the, The fluid, the lighter fluid or whatever it was. Yeah. Somebody switched out with water or something because it didn't do anything. And he tried it backstage and it worked

SPEAKER_00 20:00

because he switched it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

And so anyway, but so yeah, he didn't, he wasn't able to practice. But anyway, so coming back to Sunday school, we prep. One of the ways that we prep, I feel like is, and Brother Arter and I have talked about this before, but is in pre-service prayer before Sunday school. Yeah. And of course we have practice before that, but then just the lifestyle. Yeah. That's the prep, you know, is if you have, have a prayer life. Yeah. And if you know how to pray with people in, in big church, we call it, then when you come here and it's altar service time or, or there's just a leading of the spirit, you know, maybe you're teaching a lesson and you just know like, okay, now, now's the time to go to altar call. And so that's all prep.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Absolutely. And we've had, I I don't know how it was last Sunday, but the last few Sundays have had good altar

SPEAKER_01 20:56

calls. Good altar calls. Yeah. Very good. So, and talking about altar call, I have a note here, inadequate and unqualified. So, I put... So then there's the rest of us, you know, there's those that have the false bravado and they're sticking their foot in their mouth and those that feel overconfident. And then there's those that are supremely confident and they're just, man, they seem like they were born with it. And then there's the rest of us. And so, you know, we get on stage, our mouth gets dry, our hands get sweaty, our breath speeds up. But more importantly, I think that this can apply in ways that are important. You know, we've talked about stage fright was one of our podcasts. And so I don't want to rehash that. But I think that this can come across when we pray for kids, especially younger staff. We go to pray for kids and maybe we feel unqualified to do it or we feel inadequate. Like we don't feel like- What do we do? Yeah. What do I do here? Or I've never prayed anybody through, you know? And so we lack that. Uh, confidence. And that's where, that's where we need it. That's when we're in the ring. That's where we need it the most.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Yep. That's yeah. It's so true because the ultimate goal of what we're doing is, you know, what any church's mission should be, should be discipleship and evangelism. So if we're teaching Bible stories and we're teaching principles of God's word, that's going to instill things in the, that are going to last a lifetime. But we have kids here that don't come to church here. Right. This is their only interaction. And so we want to get them, all of them ultimately, but we want them to receive the Holy Ghost. Yeah. Because then you're able to slip into that, I say the flow all the time, but you just slip into the flow of the Spirit. We could be back here goofing off, eating snacks back here, and then somebody, you pop out, it's like, hey guys, it's altar call. And we go out there, finish the conversation, go in there, and we just start praying.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Right,

SPEAKER_02 23:30

yeah. And we just slip right, God starts moving, and we're able to minister in that way. And the more you do it, the easier it is.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yeah, oh yeah, exactly. Yeah, the more you do. If you have done something before, then if you have the experience, it's kind of like there's a Navy SEAL motto or something. I don't mind if I get this wrong, but I think it was something like the Marines had a motto, the more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle. And then the Navy SEALs took it and said, the more you bleed in training, the less you bleed Of course they did. some either smaller churches or larger churches that have smaller classrooms. You know, they split them up. We do ages five through 11 here. And so we have one kind of big group. But the importance of altar call, we talked about that on another podcast, but altar call is important. And I think that you made a good point. This is what made me think of writing it down is you said there's some kids that this is, you know, they don't come to church. They only come on Sunday morning. Right. They come on the bus. And something, you know... to think about is we are their only connection only and so if we're afraid and we hold back from praying with them for them to get the Holy Ghost because we're like well pastor's not in here or brother so and so he's always prays with people and he's not in here if we hold back then missed it we missed it yeah it's like I talked about the lifeguard hack if you're the lifeguard you gotta jump Yeah. kids they may not realize it but man they they need our help absolutely so desperately they need the

SPEAKER_02 26:26

thing is with those kids too with with kids that only come on sunday morning on the bus or whatever they're not even gonna know if you mess up yeah if you say something wrong or get tongue-tied when you're praying for them or or whatever they're not even gonna know just dive in man it's like i worked uh as a cna for a Oh, wow. that are products of bus ministry and products of Sunday school. Yeah. That was their only connection to the church.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that kid, if you say Maywaker, they don't know. They don't. They don't have any idea that that's wrong. Come on, God is a Maywaker. Yes, Lord. Yes. They'll just be like, well, what did you learn in Sunday school today? Well, God is a Maywaker. Oh, Lord. Now I'm feeling very inadequate.

UNKNOWN 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

So, one of the things I had thought about and I wrote down is that there's a lot of people, I think, that we look up to that we would consider, you know, heroes of the faith. Yes. Or, you know, these preachers that are just renowned. I told Brother Kyle, the Brother Bo, a couple of years ago, at our conference, Brother Kenbo, told me, I'm so nervous. And I was just, I think it had to have been a little bit of ingest. But still, it was kind of like, this is like one of the most incredible speakers. But I do feel like, though, that, well, like the story you told, you know, about that video or whatever, you don't look like you're And so I think that there's some of these speakers that are just incredible and they don't, you know, it's not that they feel like they're all that. They're just doing what they're supposed to do. And they are often fighting through feelings of inadequacy.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

You know, they don't feel like they're qualified, you know. Yeah. And I think you can feel it too. Like the difference of, you know, the people that feel like I have arrived, you know, versus those that are humble, but yet they're so powerful.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Yeah. I remember Pastor talking about this with me one time. And you're really open right here. And we could edit this if we need to. But he... He was getting on me about something. I was wanting to do something. And he wasn't saying I would be this way, but he's like, I remember one guy years ago that I think he had went through Bible college. So he had some, you know, some education into the Bible and all that. But he said he was the type that just would walk into a room full of preachers. You know, you take the top 10 of Pentecost, you name them, you know, I'm not going to name them now, but you take the top best preachers of like you're your bucket list of preachers.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yeah, Pastor Shannon

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Burgess. Oh, yeah, absolutely, at the top. And then he's sitting at a table, you know, after church, eating dinner, and he said, this is the kind of guy that you don't want to be. He said, this is the kind of guy that will plop down right between number one and number two and put his feet on the table and throw a grape in his mouth and say, what's up, doc? How are things going?

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

You know, you've got to.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah, that's that. That's the idiot we talked about at the beginning. That's the idiot. The guy that's like, you know, yeah, he seems confident, but

SPEAKER_02 30:38

I don't want him. I don't want to be like that guy. And so, like you said, people could feel that. Everyone in that room is going to know, okay, he's not preaching for me. Yeah. Or let's stay away. Yeah. It's just, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Well, I remember Elder Burgess, Elder Glenn Burgess, our pastor's father, who was a pastor before. He... He was an incredible preacher, and there were so many people that looked up to him, like other preachers that just honored him. Our whole fellowship here in Washington just honored him, and he was kind of the, I don't know, I guess the head, quote-unquote head guy in our fellowship.

UNKNOWN 31:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

But he was so humble. So humble. I mean, he would ask me questions like, what do you think? And not about the Bible necessarily. Sure, sure. He was just so humble. And I remember, here's something I learned from him. This is something I learned from him in an argument where I just know that I'm right.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

something I learned from him and I try to practice this and my kids might would say I don't, but I try to practice this is he would be like, you know, well, I might be wrong, but I think, you know, his whole attitude. I could hear his voice. Yeah. His whole attitude. I might be wrong. Yeah. And, and he always left room for that. I could be wrong, but here's what I think, you know? Oh man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

That's exactly how we

SPEAKER_01 32:19

were. All right. Well, to recap, so, So don't have false bravado. That's me. And so we talked about a couple of different things there. Those that are the what's up doc, the guy that's just confident and shouldn't be. He's just arrogant. He's confident because he's got some kind of title maybe or whatever. And then there's the other guy that's false bravado that's trying to prove how confident he is. And that's the guy that's all talk. You get on the court and they're just talking it up. Well, yeah, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they don't have anything to back it up with.

UNKNOWN 33:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

And then the supreme confidence, those that just, the ones that we want to be like. They're super confident. They can laugh at themselves. They're self-deprecating. They're comfortable on stage. They can talk to people. I remember an example, and now we are over time, but I remember an example Pastor gave one time. He was at the gym, and he doesn't really go to the gym a lot or anything, but he was at the gym one time, and I think he was on a treadmill or something and a guy came over and talked to him that was like, you know, mentally like, like slow.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah. And he, and so pastor like had a conversation with him, talk to him and everything.

UNKNOWN 33:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Well, this guy, he watched this guy, I don't know if it was before or after, I can't remember, but he watched this guy go over to this like big buff guy and try to talk to him. And the guy was just like ignoring him, just short answers and just trying to, you know, extricate himself from the conversation. And it was like the buff guy was embarrassed and didn't want to be associated with the, you know, he didn't. And so he didn't have enough confidence to understand. that hey I'm not dropping down to another level or anything you know so

SPEAKER_02 34:35

very true

SPEAKER_01 34:36

all right and then the final one inadequate and unqualified is we can you know we start praying with kids or doing some of the important stuff not just the onstage stuff but the important stuff connecting and that's the time when we we can't use that as an excuse we can't use like well I'm not good enough you just have to to be good enough. You're the lifeguard. You have to be good enough. It's your job. All right. Well, I think that's a wrap.

UNKNOWN 35:07

Thank you.